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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Saranel Binyon 
January 28, 1998 
Cassette 3, Side 1 
 
 
Katherin Hervey  00:01 
January 10, 1998. 
 
Saranel Binyon  00:08 
Okay. So, to continue the question, when I realized I was a woman, before I came into this 
incarnation, and I said that I wasn't going to have the physical strength, but I would definitely 
have the mental strength and the understanding that it was going to take to do what needed to be 
done, to survive as a woman and as a human being and help evolution too.  
 
Katherin Hervey  00:32 
How's that?  
 
Saranel Binyon  00:35 
By understanding that evolution is occurring, and by working with brainwaves, expanding the 
use of the brain, expanding the neural net, I think, is the next step in our evolution. I'm having a 
little tiny piece in that. 
 
Katherin Hervey  00:56 
So you never had, because I think most women have this experience where, like, all of a sudden 
they realize, like, you know, like maybe in their 20s or something like this, like, this is what it is. 
You know, like, either they, if they're in an abusive relationship, or just all of a sudden they 
realize that, hey, Joe Blow is getting paid 20 dollars more an hour, you know, something like 
that. They realize, like, this is what all the all the talk is about, you know what I mean? Like, it 
either comes gradually, like, I know it happened to me. Like, I just often realize, like, this sucks, 
you know? And I know that a lot of women experience that. So did that never happen since you 
kind of came into it knowing?  
 
Saranel Binyon  01:36 
It really didn't. The thing that I do remember is thinking that minorities had to use different 
bathrooms and drink from a different fountain. I was curious, and I was eight years old in 
Snyder, Texas, that was it, Snyder, but there was colored bathrooms. Oh, I thought it meant that 
it was, you know, colored like red, bright red and orange, and it wasn't, you know, and colored 
fountains, it was the same. So I asked my daddy, I said, "What does it mean, colored?" He said, 
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"People with dark skin." And I said, "Well, my mother has darker skin than I do." He said, "No, 
Saranel, it's the negros and the Mexicans." Oh.  
 
Katherin Hervey  02:23 
It wasn't like that in Odessa? 
 
Saranel Binyon  02:25 
Oh yeah, it was, I just didn't pay any, you know, it didn't hit me. I didn't pay any attention to it, 
because we had Mexican workers. But there didn't seem to be a differentiated, any line between 
the Mexicans and, and the white workers. I didn't know any black people then. Later finding out 
that my mother is so prejudiced against blacks, that, that's probably why I didn't know any. But 
that's when I realized that society was segmented, when I was eight, and I hated it.  
 
Katherin Hervey  02:53 
So, you didn't come into this life realizing that?  
 
Saranel Binyon  02:55 
I knew it when I came in, that I was a woman and things were different. I didn't understand about 
the colors yet. I didn't know about that. That was a shock. 
 
Katherin Hervey  03:18 
The past lives that you do remember when, when you were either man or woman, except when 
you were the frog person-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  03:27 
The witch doctor. 
 
Katherin Hervey  03:28 
The witch doctor. 
 
Saranel Binyon  03:28 
[Joking] watch yourself. 
 
Katherin Hervey  03:30 
Sorry, I couldn't remember the words that you used, were you white or?  
 
Saranel Binyon  03:35 
Different colors.  
 
Katherin Hervey  03:36 
Different colors?  
 
Saranel Binyon  03:38 
And I learned, as I reviewed the lives, to look down at my hands. And anytime I've worked with 
anybody who knows this [?same?] past life, I have a look at their hands. So, if they are a 
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different color, on some level, they'll know it. And they may not always vocalize it, but when 
they start to tell it, they'll say, "And my skin was dark," or, "My skin was light." 
 
Katherin Hervey  04:02 
Or that's a man or woman's hand?  
 
Saranel Binyon  04:03 
Mm-hmm, because I think it's important that we know that we've been all colors, and we've been 
men and women, and we've done everything. Each one of us has probably been a murderer or a 
saint, and all the variations in between, in all the lifetimes. 
 
Katherin Hervey  04:26 
[Recording stops and starts]-- I had to give it a second, [inaudible]. Okay, let's talk about money. 
Your experiences with it, and I know that you said that you always feel like, you know, if only I 
had, you know, so and so much money, you wouldn't have to worry about stuff and-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  04:50 
A common blight. 
 
Katherin Hervey  04:51 
--and everything, yeah, and everything would work good. 
 
Saranel Binyon  04:55 
Women aren't, women aren't taught to handle money, or at least they weren't in my generation. 
We were taught if you were blonde and had big tits, you never had to do another thing else in 
your life, that's all you had to do. And unfortunately, I bought into that, and God, was I wrong, 
because I didn't pay attention to money. And because of that, my first husband took all mine and 
all my parent's, everything else. So, it's been difficult because I didn't pay attention, and if I had 
it to do over, it wouldn't be that way at all.  
 
Katherin Hervey  05:24 
So since then, is it something that you've always struggled with?  
 
Saranel Binyon  05:28 
Yeah, yeah. I don't think a woman that has had a lot of money and goes through a divorce where 
she gets wiped, ever, ever really gets over it. I think it's really, it's really hard to rebound unless, 
of course, you find another really wealthy man, and I am indeed looking, and it's a hard thing. 
So, what I taught my daughter, because I began to catch on a little bit, was to totally take care of 
herself. And she is so independent that it's causing her problems the other way. So, somewhere in 
there is, there's a middle road, but I don't know what it is. But she's very good with money and 
she's, she's good at everything that I was not good at, yay. 
 
Katherin Hervey  06:19 
So when the divorce happened, did you ever sue him to try and get your assets or? 
 
Saranel Binyon  06:27 
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The way it all came out, I was not able to do that. He had a lot of power. I was afraid of him 
physically and mentally. And I think there was a, well, there was a hesitation. I didn't think my 
kids would love me if I, you know, acted ugly, so I did, I was not. If I had it to do over, I'd take 
his shorts and the fillings in his teeth because I paid for them, I should have them. Are you 
listening? Spring up, spring up, [?this is what you're hearing?]. 
 
Katherin Hervey  07:03 
Well, I guess, earlier, we talked about anger and how you need, women especially need to have, 
like a moment of anger. They need to experience anger before they can, before they can change. 
Besides, you know, something like that-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  07:20 
[?I think I need to go closer for it to work?].  
 
Katherin Hervey  07:27 
[Recording stops and starts]-- All right. 
 
Saranel Binyon  07:28 
Go ahead and ask the question now, what? 
 
Katherin Hervey  07:30 
So, well like, what, what-- At what points of your life, where have you reached, like, you've 
reached the-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  07:34 
The point anger?  
 
Katherin Hervey  07:35 
--anger that you, that, that changes something. That you're like, all right, you know? And we've 
talked about a couple of them, but I guess maybe outside of your marriage. 
 
Saranel Binyon  07:43 
I think that we need to look at anger and women's idea of anger, because in my generation, and 
probably a little bit of your generation, we were taught that to be angry was not feminine, it was 
bad. We weren't, I mean, were you allowed to have a fit?  
 
Katherin Hervey  07:59 
No. 
 
Saranel Binyon  08:02 
I was allowed to, but I always paid for it later, so it really wasn't worth it. So, I learned to stifle 
my anger. Anytime you stifle an insult in your soul, it makes you really mad, and you hold onto 
that anger. And I think that when we realize that each time we let someone run over us, that 
we're not just harming ourselves, we're harming our soul too. We have a right to be angry, and 
it's the right, to claim the right to be angry is something we haven't done. As we learn to claim 
the right to be angry, and be angry, it's easier to get rid of it. It's when you can't let go of it 
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because you don't have an outlet for it. And your question was, when in my life did I make 
changes? Being like most human beings, the only time that I've able, been able to make a big 
change is when I was so miserable that I was gonna die if I didn't, so, and most of us are that 
way. We, we don't like change. The only thing, only people in life that like change really, are wet 
babies. So, anytime we start to make a change, it's very painful, and we have to really, really, 
really, almost be forced into it. And anger is a really good prod, because we'll be so angry that 
we, we're not going to stand it anymore, and that makes the change. 
 
Katherin Hervey  09:25 
Do you find that that when you reach that anger as a woman and you're really vocal about it, that 
people respond to you negatively? 
 
Saranel Binyon  09:34 
Oh, yeah, yeah. If a woman yells in anger, she's a bitch. If a man yells in anger, he's being 
aggressive and manly man. And I think it's time that that changed too. Maybe we need to change 
it into warrior woman. I don't know, but we have a right to be angry, I think, yeah.  
 
Katherin Hervey  09:52 
All right. Menopause. 
 
Saranel Binyon  10:03 
Yeah?  
 
Katherin Hervey  10:04 
It seems like you mentioned before that to you, menopause was this liberating, wonderful 
experience.  
 
Saranel Binyon  10:13 
Well, in a way, it was. I went through menopause very young, because I had a hysterectomy. 
And what I liked about it is, you know, no more messy months, that was nice. And then the idea 
of menopause, it's like coming into a different part of your life. Most women start through 
menopause at about, I think, about 35, they start noticing changes. And as they begin to grow 
into those changes, they grow more into themselves. When you lose the ability to have children, 
you're more on your own. You only have you to worry about, you don't have to worry about 
getting pregnant and all that stuff. And that gives you a freedom to use that energy that you were 
worrying about yourself and pregnancy now you can channel that energy into something more. 
And I don't think there's anything more dangerous than a 50 year old woman, because she has 
nothing, nothing to prove anymore. She's done it, and she is very dangerous. I think that's good. 
So menopause frees in that way.  
 
Katherin Hervey  11:18 
But it seems like, I mean, maybe this is just me, but the images that I've gotten of it were that, 
you know, like, oh, my youth, my youth is gone, and, you know, hot flashes and weakness.  
 
Saranel Binyon  11:32 
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Well, yeah, this is right. But now, with better living through chemistry, we don't have to have all 
the hot flashes and all that, you know? We have ways to keep us from having that kind of stuff, 
before, yes, it must have been horrible. That's when women went crazy. And I know there was 
one story that my grandmother used to tell of this woman that was going through menopause, 
only they didn't call it menopause, I don't remember what she called it, and wouldn't comb her 
hair for weeks on end, and then one day, walked off across the prairie and never came back. She 
was gone, and there was there a lot of suicides along with that, that time, I think, for people. But 
as we begin to understand our body and the power that we can have over our body, it's really an 
exciting time, because we become stronger. If, you know, if we allow ourselves to, and no, we're 
not youthful anymore. I can't think of a time that I've wanted to be younger than I am. Like, you 
know, oh, I'd give a million dollars to be 30, no. Maybe look 30, but not be in that, that mindset. 
 
Katherin Hervey  12:42 
So you took medication?  
 
Saranel Binyon  12:43 
Oh yeah, yeah, replacement hormones. 
 
Katherin Hervey  12:47 
So, how long do you take that? Do you take it-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  12:50 
Forever.  
 
Katherin Hervey  12:50 
Really?  
 
Saranel Binyon  12:51 
Yeah, I will. Because when I don't take it, I want to kill people. I mean, I really, really am bad 
for without the hormones. And I can tell, within a 24 hour period, I started getting the I'm going 
to murder feeling, so I take them. It's incredible. I will kill, when I first moved out here, this is a 
funny little story, I didn't have a doctor or anything, and I ran out of the hormone replacement 
pills and so, I was in Olympia at the time, and I went to the woman's clinic. And I was explaining 
to a little girl, that was probably about 20, 25, you know, that I ran out of hormones, and I really 
needed them. By then, I was just about ready to, you know, go onto a killing spree. And so she 
says, "Well, we'll try to get you in next week." And I, bless my heart, grabbed her hand and I 
said, "You don't understand, I have to have them now," scared the living hell right out of her and 
one of the nurse practitioners that worked there walked by and she says, "I understand," she was 
my age and she said, "Here, take these."  
 
Katherin Hervey  14:01 
Oh, wow.  
 
Saranel Binyon  14:02 
It was really funny. There is that, you know, idea of immediate [inaudible]?  
 
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Katherin Hervey  14:08 
Yeah. 
 
Saranel Binyon  14:10 
And it's worse with some women than others. 
 
Katherin Hervey  14:13 
Do you think that yours is worse or higher? 
 
Saranel Binyon  14:16 
Must be because other women don't want to kill people. 
 
Katherin Hervey  14:20 
Or they don't admit it.  
 
Saranel Binyon  14:23 
Your mother stood in the shower and cried.  
 
Katherin Hervey  14:26 
Yeah, I remember when she was going through all of that. Well, she was so happy to find out 
that she was going through menopause. 
 
Saranel Binyon  14:33 
And not crazy.  
 
Katherin Hervey  14:33 
Yeah, exactly. So menstruation, you didn't like menstruation?  
 
Saranel Binyon  14:43 
I didn't care one way or the other, except that I was sick the whole time. I had a real hard time 
with it. I had cramps and bloating, and I'd have to stay in bed two or three days each time. And I 
had migraine headaches, pain. 
 
Katherin Hervey  14:57 
Did you take medications for it?  
 
Saranel Binyon  14:58 
Oh yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  14:59 
It didn't work?  
 
Saranel Binyon  15:00 
Well, sometimes yes and sometimes no. 
 
Katherin Hervey  15:05 
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Your feelings about it, never, the reason I ask is because, like, I mean, it happens to you once a 
month for--  
 
Saranel Binyon  15:10 
Yeah, there you are, that's your body, you know, how do you deal with it? 
 
Katherin Hervey  15:14 
--thirty years, whatever. That, I mean, did you have, like, some progression of how you felt about 
it?  
 
Saranel Binyon  15:20 
Yeah, it got from, from bad to really worse, and then I had a hysterectomy. But it was because I 
had a bunch of fibroid tumors and everything, you know. No wonder, I would almost die every 
month, no wonder I didn't like it.  
 
Katherin Hervey  15:21 
Would you stay home?  
 
Saranel Binyon  15:25 
Oh yeah, I'd have to. So, I decided that, you know, either kill me now or take this out, one or the 
other.  
 
Katherin Hervey  15:42 
How old were you when you had your hysterectomy?  
 
Saranel Binyon  15:44 
I was 30, 30 years old.  
 
Katherin Hervey  15:46 
And then you went through menopause after, soon after that? 
 
Saranel Binyon  15:49 
Yeah, a year later, I was teaching in the university, creative writing classes, with, in a class of 
freshmen. I was standing up, doing a lecture, and it felt like someone poured a bucket of water 
over my head. I got ringing wet all over, and I thought it was dying. So, I went to the emergency 
room-- dismissed class and went to the emergency room, and they had a lovely laugh at that. Oh 
no, we just think you're having a hot flash. Well, I thought to myself, then this is the last damn 
hot flash I'll ever have. And it was. 
 
Katherin Hervey  15:58 
Yeah, it's horrible, it's awful. How have your relationships with women changed through your 
life? 
 
Saranel Binyon  16:42 
Well, I like women now. As I was growing up, I didn't because my mother and I didn't get along, 
and I didn't trust her because she would do untrustworthy things, and so I never really trusted 
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women. As I got older, I began to see that not everybody was like her, and I think my daughter 
helped me a lot. She's been a real, real strong, trustworthy person, and she helped me see a 
different side of women. And then I think as you grow older or no, no, I'm gonna backtrack a bit. 
My generation look at women perhaps a different way than yours, we didn't have the 
camaraderie of women's movement then, and we were just little wives or little mothers or 
whatever. We were mad about it, but we were still little wives and little mothers. And now, 
women have more of a rah, rah, team spirit. I mean, you know, not like we're football players, 
but at least we have an identification as a group that we didn't have before. I think that makes a 
big difference.  
 
Katherin Hervey  17:47 
Do you think women compete with each other a lot?  
 
Saranel Binyon  17:50 
Sure. So do men. Men and women compete with each other a lot. Competition is the, is a natural 
part of the human psyche. It doesn't have anything to do with whether you're a man or a woman 
or chimpanzee. Some more than others though.  
 
Katherin Hervey  18:14 
[Pages turning]-- my notes. 
 
Saranel Binyon  18:17 
Well, turn it off and take a minute. 
 
Katherin Hervey  18:22 
No, I got it. Have you ever done any other writing? You were talking about how you wrote that 
one article on, that you're that you're gonna do, put in a newsletter and try and put out nationally. 
Have you ever done any other type of writing?  
 
Saranel Binyon  18:38 
Yeah, I write, I write all the time, yeah. And I've had some, some stuff published. Looking back, 
I cringe, and certainly won't tell you where it is or how to find it. Yeah, it's fun to write, fun to 
express. And now I have my darling little laptop computer, and that really helps the process. 
 
Katherin Hervey  18:58 
Do you keep a journal?  
 
Saranel Binyon  18:59 
You know, I did, but I don't now, and perhaps I should. I'm not particularly interested in doing it 
right now, but I have at various times in my life.  
 
Katherin Hervey  19:12 
What about speaking? Do you ever speak, [laughs], I mean-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  19:17 
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On a daily basis, on a daily basis. I've done a lot of public speaking. I started when I was, I 
guess, in the eighth grade. And to me, public speaking is, it's easier to speak to 1000 people than 
it is to three. I really like it. I could have been a rock star.  
 
Katherin Hervey  19:37 
Why do you say that, that it's easier? 
 
Saranel Binyon  19:40 
Because I don't have, I don't have that fear that most people have of public speaking. It doesn't 
scare me at all, I really like it. So, you know, when people say they have butterflies, I don't know 
what they're talking about. I don't have a clue, I don't know.  
 
Katherin Hervey  19:56 
What have you spoken on? Do you speak on health issues and? 
 
Saranel Binyon  20:00 
Well, throughout my life, it depends on where I was. In this decade, it is working with, I've done 
a lot of speeches on UFOs and the abductees and contact teams, and a lot on man's progression 
and evolution, and now on health issues, neurofeedback, etcetera. Get a group together, and I'll 
talk to them, whatever they want to hear.  
 
Katherin Hervey  20:27 
Do you get paid? 
 
Saranel Binyon  20:31 
Mm-hmm, usually.  
 
Katherin Hervey  20:31 
What has been your work with UFOs? 
 
Saranel Binyon  20:37 
Well, working as a hypnotherapist, we hear stories, of course, and, and this was like 10 years 
ago, and I began to think, no wonder what they're telling me. It didn't dawn on me that they 
could have been abducted. And finally, one of them said, one of the clients said something about 
a little grey person. And I stopped and questioned that lady and realized that she was talking 
about an alien, my mouth was open. And then, in putting it together, realizing these people are 
telling me stories of how they felt when they were abducted. And this wasn't one, one, this was 
like 100 different people would say, you know, things under hypnosis. So, it kind of got my 
attention. I have seen one UFO, I thought was a UFO, I still think it was, and that was 
interesting. Would like to see more. Mine, however, wasn't at Pizza Hut. [They laugh.] 
 
Katherin Hervey  21:41 
Good to know. 
 
Saranel Binyon  21:42 
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Yes, yes. That's an interesting part. There are all sorts of feelings and theories about it, about the 
dimensionality of the UFO phenomena and the idea that they're angels, we created them, all sorts 
of ideas, and they're all very interesting. As far as what the truth is, I think it's an individual 
thing. Who knows. It's out there, we just don't know what it is. 
 
Katherin Hervey  22:12 
Why do you think that you had all these people that came to you that ended up under hypnosis? 
And it seems like a rather large--  
 
Saranel Binyon  22:21 
Well, I think that because I don't judge people, and I think that intuitively, we know who we can 
tell things to, and I always like to hear anything that was, that was the deal. I think that was it. Or 
it may have been the time, where we were, and there was a lot of activity, supposedly there was, 
in that time, a lot of activity. 
 
Katherin Hervey  22:44 
Do you do any work with it now? 
 
Saranel Binyon  22:46 
Because I don't use hypnosis as much as I used to, no, I don't. And I find that I kind of miss the 
stories, because they're always very interesting. And the people that have been in that mindset 
are always a little different, and I miss that. However, what I'm doing now, no. 
 
Katherin Hervey  23:10 
So when you, when you, when you speak to people under hypnosis, when they come to you for 
certain problems, so you would be talking to them while they're, about certain things, and then 
certain things just come up? 
 
Saranel Binyon  23:22 
I think you're asking me, what process did we use? And normally, if someone had this issue and 
didn't know it-- There are two types of people that knew consciously they had been abducted or 
visited or whatever, and the ones that didn't know it. The ones that consciously knew it wanted to 
talk about it. They wanted to re-experience it, to see what they needed to learn from the 
experience, that was pretty cut and dry. Go through the hypnosis process, take them back to that 
time, and then they either walk through it, they talked about it, or they just remembered it, 
whatever. And some of them wanted, would even have me record it, you know, what was going 
on. The other ones, the unconscious memory, usually people would come with an eating disorder 
or with an insomnia or a chronic back pain, of all things, or disturbing ideas, memories that they 
couldn't quite get a hold of. You know, they remembered something that bothered them, but they 
didn't know what it was. And so under hypnosis, we would go to that place and find it, and then 
they would remember. And after that was triggered, then consciously, they could tell you, after 
you open that door. Is that what you meant?  
 
Katherin Hervey  24:31 
Mm-hmm. 
 
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Saranel Binyon  24:32 
Okay. But you, I want to say this to you, you have to be very careful not to plant ideas. When 
you're working with people, you can't say to them, "Oh, so you want to tell me about being 
abducted?" Because then they will, I mean, very careful about what you say to them.  
 
Katherin Hervey  24:56 
Really? 
 
Saranel Binyon  24:57 
Yeah, you'll say, you know, "Tell me how you feel," or, "What do you see, now?" Not, "Are you 
looking at an alien?" Then, they'll certainly describe one for you.  
 
Katherin Hervey  25:06 
Or, "Does it have blue eyes?" 
 
Saranel Binyon  25:07 
Yeah, you don't, you don't do that. That's not the ethical way to do it.  
 
Katherin Hervey  25:21 
You mentioned last time that, with adults, or like, would-- Well, that you learned later on, you 
know, not, not to really look at people, because you could read their thoughts, and they could see 
that. 
 
Saranel Binyon  25:32 
Maybe not necessarily their thoughts, but their, their intent. You know, that's different than 
thought. 
 
Katherin Hervey  25:39 
Oh, yeah, that's, then I understand that one.  
 
Saranel Binyon  25:42 
Well, I think you do it too, but I don't know that you see it with your eyes. I think you're like 
your mother, I think you feel it, you perceive it more on a physical thing than--  
 
Katherin Hervey  25:53 
Just a feeling? 
 
Saranel Binyon  25:54 
Yeah, yeah, "Oh, I feel like," you know?  
 
Katherin Hervey  25:56 
Mm-hmm, definitely. You said that you think the next 100 years, there'll be a shift in women's 
power. How do you see this happening, and where do you think that you fit into it? 
 
Saranel Binyon  26:18 
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In order to answer that question, I'd have to refer you to the book, The Chalice and the Blade. If 
you're going to do women's studies, you need to read this book, because it tells about, and I think 
we've gone through this before about the matriarchal system. Now, what I perceive is happening 
is that, in 1977, to backtrack a little bit, Chiron, a new planet, was discovered. And the Chiron 
energy that we're now feeling in our astrological charts and in our environment and everything 
else has to do with clarity and the matriarchal power and the return to intuition, return to the 
ancient arts. And as we return to the ancient arts, we'll want to begin to preserve the earth. And I 
think you see this happening, I know people are becoming somewhat conscious of preserving 
what's left, you know? And I think that this is a feminine energy, the Chiron energy seems to be 
a femininistic energy. Going to be really interesting. It will take another 20, 23 years, this is a 
very slow orbiting planet, to finish this cycle, and that will put us at a Saturn return. When there's 
a Saturn return, then we're kind of faced with all of our demons. So that puts us about in the year 
[?2025?], thereabouts, and by then, we will have, hopefully, really begun to shift into women's 
power. Then I think that we will look to see what else we need to do. By then, I think that we 
will be moving into changing third world countries. Because I think it's going to take us at least 
30 years in America and in England, in the, you know, the [sarcastically] civilized country, to 
begin to right the wrongs, and it's only when we are strong, only when we have fixed ourselves, 
that we can even attempt to go into third world countries. So looking at the 100 year span, it's 
going to take us 100 years, because we've just begun. As for my part of it, mine's no different 
than any other woman, to be true to the feminine spirit and not to let anybody push me around.  
 
Katherin Hervey  28:52 
How do you see that happening with, with third world? Because my take on it is that like we are, 
we're, you know, supposed to quote, first world, because they are third world, and we depend on 
that. You know, there's a dependency there with the labor and stuff like that. Do you mean it 
still, there'll be a shift in consciousness?  
 
Saranel Binyon  29:11 
Yes and, yeah, and to track that back further, when there's a shift in consciousness, in that we can 
accept the reality of free energy, because it exists, it's been discovered, when we change our 
monetary system to allow for free energy. And if you think about it a minute, the reason we don't 
have free energy is because it would wreck all the first world countries. Think about all the 
monetary issues that are tied in, for instance, with electricity. How many millions of dollars go 
toward that? How many millions of dollars go towards heating our houses and filling our bellies? 
If we can do that, and we can, without a great deal of effort, then we will have the energy to 
begin to uplift other people. The only reason that we are the first world country and they are the 
third world country is because we figured out how to keep warm and to eat. Well, most of the 
people in the United States have, and that, I think, is the big the big differentiation there. When 
we learn how to do this the right way and not like charging so much money or killing the planet, 
then, of course, we can help these other people along. Cuba has a really good medical framework 
because they haven't had any money to, you know, to build great big machines and all that, 
they've had to rely on the, the witch doctors, or the curanderos, and the homeopathic, the faith 
healers, and hands-on healers, and acupuncturists. So, when you look at their, their medical 
establishment, it is really, really good and would work in any country without that huge 
expenditure. And they don't have drug companies, which-- [recording ends]. 
 